Friday, November 14, 2008

More on Prop 8

California voters can't get a break.

They have voted, not once, but twice, to ban same-sex marriage.

In 2000, voters approved Proposition 22 with nearly two-thirds of the vote only to have it overturned by the state Supreme Court in May, which stated that banning same-sex marriage violated the equal protection clause of the state constitution because it allowed a majority to take away rights intended for everyone.

Last Tuesday, Californians approved Proposition 8, which amended the state constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman, but the issue is before the Court again after opponents sued. Opponents of Prop 8 are hoping the Court's original argument will still hold.

So who makes the laws now??

Traditionally the role of the court is: "The judicial branch hears cases that challenge or require interpretation of the legislation." from

I guess we now that 52% of Americans have voted for Obama that means we all have agreed to have a living constitution that we can change at will.

Now the courts can MAKE the laws as well as INTERPRET the laws. - (but actually that's not new, the courts have been doing that for years)...

Anyways, back to the news...

Pro-homosexual activists are going to have a "National Day of Protest" tomorrow. Before they lost all three of the marriage initiatives, they were declaring themselves champions of tolerance, diversity and respect for others.
They have chosen a clenched fighting fist logo for their "Fight the H8 (Hate)"
campaign. They are overtly attacking Mormon temples and evangelical Christian churches and now proclaim themselves "ready to rumble."

They have attacked the Mormon prophet - President Thomas S. Monson (see video below) - stating that he doesn't follow his own advice:
"Mormon Pres. Tom Monson should have taken some of his own advice and applied it toward his official stance on California Proposition 8, but apparently one of Tom's most vivid learning experiences was not vivid enough."

The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has never condoned abusive treatment of anyone. "No on Prop 8" supporters state that churches are not following their own advice of following Christ and loving one another. This is a very weak argument. When did Christ say it was OK to change the truths in the bible and encourage his flock to sin? When did he preach that we should accept and embrace each others' sins. He told the women who was taken in adultery to go and sin no more. He didn't tell the elders to embrace her sin and force them to teach their children that this sin was acceptable. He told them not to condemn her, but told the women to go and sin no more. (John 8:1-11).

Same-sex marriage advocates want to quote the bible, however they pick and choose which parts of the bible they want to obey - Naturally they haven't chosen to quote the "go and sin no more" passage as that is one of teachings of Christ they don't want to follow. We do not condemn homosexuals, we do not force them to go to church, listen to sermons, live our lifestyle; but we don't embrace their sin. We do not want to be forced to have our children learn this lifestyle in the schools and to be forced to embrace this lifestyle.

Working to protect marriage is not mean-spirited. It is the legitimate response of the majority of people who want what is best for individuals, children and our society. When rights for same-sex couples are expanded, freedom of speech and religion are threatened. Even motherhood and fatherhood are challenged. Here are some examples:

"In Massachusetts and Spain, parents can no longer be referred to as mother and father on birth certificates. They must be designated as "Party A and B" and "Progenitor A and B" respectively. (This ignores the biological fact that only one member of a same-sex couple can possibly be the "progenitor.")

After same-sex marriage was legalized in Massachusetts, Catholic Charities, a major facilitator of adoptions, had to drop their adoption program because they knew they would be required to by law to facilitate adoption of children to same-sex couples and they did not want to face lawsuits.

A photographer in New Mexico was fined $6,500 for politely declining to photograph a "commitment ceremony" of two lesbians because same-sex relationships violated her religious beliefs.

A church in New Jersey lost its tax-exempt status for some of it's property for refusing to rent out it's pavilion for a lesbian "commitment ceremony."

Because they refused to advertise homosexual California couples as potential adoptive parents, the largest adoption advertising company on the Internet can no longer advertise any couples from California as potential adoptive parents.

Pastors in Sweden and Canada were prosecuted for speaking out publicly against same-sex marriage based on their reading of biblical scripture. Two Bible publishers in the U.S. have been sued over biblical teachings against homosexuality.

Doctors in California were sued for declining to artificially inseminate a lesbian women because it was against their religious beliefs. The court ruled against the doctors and ordered them to pay damages.

The very existence of an organization like American Mother's Inc. could potentially be threatened if laws are passed allowing same-sex marriage. The goal of the opposition is to eliminate all references to mothers and fathers in our society under the guise of discrimination.
(- Excerpts from a Family Policy Brief issued by Family Watch International)

"In Massachusetts, GLSEN is famous (or infamous) for what's become known as "fistgate." On March 25, 2000, GLSEN sponsored, along with the Massachusetts Department of Education, a taxpayer-funded conference. Its goals included putting Gay/Straight Alliances into more Massachusetts schools, and expanding homosexual teaching into lower grades.

Many gay-friendly teachers (who received development credits for being there) and administrators attended, along with students who were bussed in from their home districts. One particular workshop was listed as a "youth only, ages 14-21" session, run by three self-professed gay presenters. Thanks to two members of a local Parents' Rights Coalition who secretly taped the session, we know exactly what happened. One of the teachers asked the assembled students what "fisting" meant. Following a descriptive definition, another of the adult presenters proceeded to demonstrate the proper formation of the hand for this sexual act. After a student of about 16 said that it didn't sound very appealing, the third adult presenter calmed his concerns. This technique, she explained, "often gets a really bad rap," and that it was "an experience of letting somebody into your body that you want to be that close and intimate with." Other homosexual acts were discussed and described in detail."
- from:

My question: Why are we still fighting this? The people of California have already spoken twice! The Majority of Californians do not want this forced indoctrination of the homosexual agenda infiltrated in the school and churches.

"...Anti-Prop. 8 rabble-rousers continue to wreak havoc on Mormon churches in several cities and states and blacklisting peaceful voters who supported the ballot measure. It is getting very ugly out there and no one in the Democratic leadership has stepped up to condemn the insane rage..." - Michell Malkin


Ross said...

"Same-sex marriage advocates want to quote the bible, however they pick and choose which parts of the bible they want to obey"

As do the opponents. Personally, the bible rates somewhere around toilet paper in my book, but hey--some of us have brains. Judge not lest ye be judged? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Love thy neighbor? Blah blah blah, nevermind. You aren't listening anyhow. Debating with conservatives is like refusing to buy candy for a four year old. Get ready for the screaming!

"We do not condemn homosexuals, we do not force them to go to church, listen to sermons, live our lifestyle; but we don't embrace their sin."

Yes, you do. When you call us sinners, deny us equal rights, you are condemning us. When you force your religious beliefs into law, you oppress us and essentially force your church's BS dogma on our lives. And it's a sin in YOUR OPINION. Not mine. The will of the majority should never be used to take rights away from a minority.

"We do not want to be forced to have our children learn this lifestyle in the schools and to be forced to embrace this lifestyle."

Not going to happen. Utter BS, yet again. Paranoid rantings and delusions.

"When rights for same-sex couples are expanded, freedom of speech and religion are threatened."

No, they are not. Hate speech is already illegal. Religion seems to be getting along just fine despite you Christians' persecution complexes.

As for the formation of more GSA's (gay-straight alliances) in high schools, I wish I'd had one to go to when I was growing up in small-town Montana. The harassment was endless. The hatred was palpable. I was called "faggot," "queer," "f****** homo" and worse. I received death threats. The last person to call me "f***ing faggot" was, in fact, a MORMON. Surprise, surprise, considering the fact that that church teaches HATE.

Wake up. You are the oppressor.
You are the fascist.
You are the evil grain of hatred in our society, destroying what could be a beautiful land.

One last time--SHAME. Your self-righteousness and hatred seem to know no bounds.

We will FIGHT your discrimination, lies and hate until that glorious day when we triumph and your irrational babble fades away into history. You will lose the war, I can guarantee you that.

May the Higher Power of the Universe grant you the ability to be free of hatred and fear!


-Ross Robbins, age 25, Missoula, MT--proud of who I am, sick of bigots like you, not going on turning the other cheek anymore.

Gaylynne Coates said...

1. You stated: "personally the bible rates somewhere around toilet paper..."

Great - no one is making you read it. No one is forcing you to go to church, to pray, to live my lifestyle, etc.

2. Then you go on to quote the bible. "Do unto others, love they neighbor... blah blah blah."

So since you are quoting the bible, let see... what did Christ mean when he told us to love one another, that meant we can just sin like crazy - commit adultery, steal, lie, cheat, and do whatever we want - all the commandments don't really matter - just love one another. That's not what Christ meant and you know it.

This is what Christ taught us about loving one another and sin - from John 8: 1-11

"1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Christ did not change the law for the woman taken in adultery, but he treated her with respect. He didn't condemn her, but he didn't embrace her sin and ask the elders of the church to embrace and accept her adultery and teach their children that adultery was OK and acceptable. He told her to go and sin no more.

Jesus taught that we love and care for one another without condoning transgression. But today’s politically palatable definition insists that unless one accepts the sin he does not tolerate the sinner. Tolerance obviously requires a non-contentious manner of relating toward one another's differences. But tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination. The Church does not condone abusive treatment of others and encourages its members to treat all people with respect.

3. You state "Debating with conservatives is like refusing to buy candy for a four year. Get ready for the screaming!"

Are you serious???

The news has been full of the temper tantrum and screaming that opponents of 8 are making. The anti-Prop. 8 mob has:
blocked traffic,
impeded businesses,
harassed and attacked elderly couples,
targeted and vandalize and disrupted services of churches, temples and places of worship that encouraged their members to stand for traditional values and morals (specifically the Mormons),
targeted individuals who supported the proposition (some have been forced into resigning),
etc. -the list goes on and on.

- check out this video:

In the video here, an unruly group of protesters opposed to Proposition 8, the ballot initiative in California approved by voters Nov. 6 that bans gay marriage, not only refuse to allow an elderly woman to speak with the media, they assault her as well. Near the end of the video, they grab her cross, throw it on the ground and stomp it.

Here some quotes from liberal blogs: "Burn their f---ing churches to the ground, and then tax the charred timbers," wrote "World O Jeff" on the JoeMyGod blogspot.

On a blog website, "Tread" wrote, "I hope the No on 8 people have a long list and long knives."

On the "Queerty" website, "Stenar" asked, "Can someone in CA please go burn down the Mormon temples there, PLEASE. I mean seriously. DO IT."

"I'm going to give them something to be f---ing scared of. … I'm a radical who is now on a mission to make them all pay for what they've done," wrote "Jonathan."

On yet another site, "Americablog," "scottinsf" wrote, "Trust me. I've got a big list of names of mormons and catholics that were big supporters of Prop 8. … As far as mormons and catholics … I warn them to watch their backs."

Is this your kind of debating??

I haven't seen any protesting and screaming going around from conservatives because Obama got in. So what screaming are you talking about? Your party is the one screaming and threatening.

4. You state: "we call you sinners and deny you equal right."

Proposition 8 was never about equal rights - In California, the law provides for marriage-related benefits to be given to civil unions and domestic partnerships. Proposition 8 does not diminish these benefits. How does this take away any of your equal rights? Go ahead and live with who ever you want, no one is stopping you. Many homosexual clearly demonstrate their love for each other at fairs such as "Up your Alley" Fair and "Folsom Street Fair" ( - I just don't want this type of "acceptable" behavior taught to my kids.

To discern right from wrong, Christians turn to Scripture as the first resource of our faith, and the foundation on which the tenets of reason and tradition reside. Homosexuality is unanimously condemned by the foundational teachings of all world religions, and those teachings are the basis for societal norms worldwide. The bible clearly states God's view on Homosexuality: (Gen. 19: 5, Lev. 20: 13, Lev. 18: 22, Deut. 23: 17, Isa. 3: 9, 1 Cor. 6: 9, 1 Tim. 1: 10,etc.). Thus, breaking through religious barriers is high on the homosexual normalization agenda.

I am sorry I didn't write the Bible and make the commandments, I am sorry they don't fit your lifestyle. I just try to follow them and I am sorry that offends you. No one is forcing you to read the bible or go to church or to believe how I do. You can believe whatever you want. You can make your own church up and preach that I am going to hell and believe whatever you want. But don’t expect me to embrace it and teach it to my children. By the way the bible is not taught in the schools.

5. I stated previously that this lifestyle will be forced on our children in schools (If gay marriage remains legal, public schools will put it on equal footing with traditional marriage. Children will likely receive “age appropriate” information about sexual relations within heterosexual and homosexual marriages.)

You stated "Not going to happen, Utter BS, yet again Paranoid"

Well, hate to tell you IT IS HAPPENING ALREADY. Let me give you some facts -

A. In the same week that the” No” on 8 campaign launched an ad that labeled as “lies” claims that same-sex marriage would be taught in schools to young children, a first grade class took a school-sponsored trip to a gay wedding. Eighteen first graders traveled to San Francisco City Hall Friday for the wedding of their teacher and her lesbian partner. Taking children out of school for a same-sex wedding is not customary education. This is promoting same-sex marriage and indoctrinating young kids. (

B. During a celebration of National Ally Week, Tara Miller, a teacher at the Faith Ringgold School of Arts and Science in Hayward, Calif., passed out cards produced by the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network to her class of kindergartners. The school has acknowledged that the exercise was not appropriate for kindergartners. The district said the pledge cards were intended for middle school and high school students. "How do you teach a 5-year-old to sign a pledge card for lesbian, gay and transgender issues without explaining what transgender and bisexual is?" (

C. 'Coming Out Day' involved children as young as kindergarten at Faith Ringgold School of Art and Science in Hayward, California.
"This is an event where they have pictures [and] posters up, telling stories and encouraging people who feel that they are homosexual or opposite gender to freely express that and articulate and affirm that," Dacus explains.

D. Children in Massachusetts are being taught this as well: see

E. Many more examples, See all the examples I put in this post as well to see how this is being forced on the children in public school that I have to pay for with my tax dollars and being forced on our churches.

6. You state: "Religion seems to be getting along just fine despite you Christians' persecution complexes."

The Church does not condone abusive treatment of others and encourages its members to treat all people with respect. However, speaking out against practices with which the Church disagrees on moral grounds – including same-sex marriage – does not constitute abuse or the frequently misused term “hate speech.” We can express genuine love and friendship for the homosexual family member or friend without accepting the practice of homosexuality or any re-definition of marriage. Same sex marriage will hurt churches. The court’s decision will inevitably lead to conflicts with religious liberty and free speech rights. Society will become more and more hostile to traditional beliefs about marriage and family.

7. You state: "The hatred was palpable. I was called "faggot," "queer," "f****** homo" and worse. I received death threats.... considering the fact that that church teaches HATE."

These people were not living what their churches’ taught. I have never been to a church that preached hatred for those that are different or for those that believe differently than us. We are taught to defend truths, not to hate.
I am also sorry you are so full of hatred.
People have called me names, laughed at me and made fun of me when I was growing up too. High school kids are immature - that is part of life. But I grew up and I don't continue to dwell on things that happened in high school.

I am not self-righteous. I never claimed to be perfect, or all knowing. I have many faults and need to make many improvements with my life. However, I don't ask for society to embrace my faults and weaknesses as "truths" and require that it be taught to all children and require that churches must accept it, like you are asking society to do for you.

Ross said...

First, gay marriage aside, the following outright lie deserves special attention:

"I haven't seen any protesting and screaming going around from conservatives because Obama got in. So what screaming are you talking about? Your party is the one screaming and threatening."

No? No death threats? No assassination plans? No right-wing pundits claiming this will be the end of America? You kid yourself.

Yet again, you distort everything I say. Civil Unions are NOT equal to marriage--there are, in fact, religious gay couples. They have the right to be married at the altar of the GOD OF THEIR UNDERSTANDING.

As for the church never having preached or practiced hatred toward gays, I've provided links to plenty of evidence of mormons doing just that. Further, we have Westboro Baptist Church (, this:


and on and on.

Christianity breeds hatred toward gays. Condones it, encourages it, and often christians carry out violent acts against gays.

I'm sure your response will be something akin to "they aren't acting in accord with what the church teaches!" but that simply is not true.

Good luck.

g.c. said...

You state: "No right-wing pundits claiming this will be the end of America? You kid yourself." - this is your proof of the "screaming tantrums" that the "right" is doing....

Ok, so we are predicting that socialism is going to ruin America just like it has taken down every other society. Wow Russia, China, and Cuba are great examples of how socialism succeeds and the people there are so free, happy, and wealthy.

I guess predicting something bad is going to happen when you strip a country of its freedoms is the same thing as blocking traffic, impeding businesses, harassing and attacking elderly couples,
targeting and vandalizing and disrupting services of churches, temples and places of worship that encouraged their members to stand for traditional values and morals,
targeting and harassing individuals who supported the proposition, etc...

Obviously, you never understood what Christianity really means.
Jesus taught that we love and care for one another without condoning transgression, but at the same time obey the commandments.

I have never been nor have any of my Christian friends of other denominations been to a sermon where their preacher preached hatred. People that "spew" hatred in the name of Christ are truly not representing Him.

But also any mention of repentance is viewed as "Hate". Any mention of not "condoning and embracing" the transgression is viewed as Hate. Is asking us to stand for values and repent of our transgressions - hate? I have things I need to repent of in my life, and when I go to church and hear what I need to do to improve, I don't view it as "hate speech" against me. I view it as counsel and guidance.

But again, I am not asking you to think the same as me. Start your own church to your own God - a different one than the one that destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. - but don't force my church to embrace that god just because you do. The marriage amendment wasn't about hate, it was just trying to protect the rights of churches and families as noted in my other post.

g.c. said...

Ross -Please do not leave any more hate comments on my blog as I will delete them immediately.

You don't want to learn any facts, and I gave you amply time to provide something of substance... this is all I got:

You spew hatred against Christians for their beliefs when you cannot provide an ounce of evidence that Christianity teaches and promotes hate.

You deny facts about studies done about the homosexual lifestyle being a high risk of HIV/AIDS. Facts and studies by the CDC don't lie. Bury your head in the sand, maybe you'll be one of the lucky 2 out of 3 that doesn't get HIV/AIDS.

You state murder of the innocent is justifiable because "we had too many people on the planet as is".

You complain about your second class life that you have been forced to live but provide me with no proof of how any of your rights are taken away.

Your logic is so twisted: (i.e. people that support the prop 8 marriage amendment are hacking onto other 'Yes on 8' websites to put up lesbian porno. - I am sure that people that support a common cause (marriage) are trying to destroy that cause (marriage) - doesn't make any sense????

You haven't provided me any substantial facts of any sort and all of your arguments are extremely weak.

You tell me you are happy, but All you do is spew hatred. Find another liberal hate blog that doesn't have any substance - then you can spew your hatred with them.